Curse

SlappedYak · Mar 29, 2011, 04:13 PM // 16:13

My main char is ranger, it's by far my favourite prof, love the lore, the ideals behind it, and have up till now been quite content milling through pve happy as a clam.
But at the moment my faith is being tested. I've never been a "pro" or "serious" player by any means, but for the sake of HoM titles, I want to try and start breaking into high end pve stuff, for which I've been told you need real people, not heroes.
But the problem is no groups ever want a ranger, and I think the reason why is that old saying: jack of all trades, master of none.

Rangers are the most versatile class by a mile, but at the moment I'm struggling to find something that they are the best at. I can't think of a single build or ranger elite that doesn't have a better/cheaper/stronger etc equivalent in another prof!

Interupts? Me>R. Condition spread D>R. Spirit spam? obviously an actual Rt > R. All out damage? W/P/D/A all > R.

The new hero update means I can usually compensate for this, running some ridiculous facerool sabway/mesway/spiritway blah blah blah, but when it comes to actual human groups or smaller parties (like WiK stuff, or early VQing) I tend to struggle.

I'm just getting a bit frustrated with pve at the moment >.< even though it's easy to switch builds when you get bored, the "fun" ones seem either heavily reliant on secondary prof (e.g. spear chukka, R/A, R/D melee fun etc) or seem...well.. "sub-optimum" and a bit clunky.

Anyone got any advice/motivational speeches on the wonders of rangerdom? :/ I want to fall back in love with them again </3 sigh...

Beomagi · Mar 29, 2011, 05:11 PM // 17:11

I've been going pew pew damage. Boring I know, but the advantage of it is mostly no time between targets with decent damage. Even if we look at other damage types - e.g. a HB warrior, most of the damage is coming from buffs. EVSoH, Splinter weapon, MoP - All of which apply to you as well.
Barrage works with splinter great - but it bores me to tears most of the time.

In no way am I outdoing my Warrior. But I DO have a certain satisfaction being farthest from the battle. I can see the full battle usually, and it makes it easier to manage heroes compared to my warrior. I'm not body blocking, but proper healing/prot keeps the party safe generally.

Crap hits the fan less on me - ever hit those situations where you're wondering when the next heal is going to come? It's rarer with my ranger. Instead if I see one of my heroes being beaten down, I concentrate fire on the attacker, mixing savage shot and dshot to interrupt, buying time for the healer/prot/snare heroes to do their thing.

I look at the ranger as being the optimal battlefield commander. Damage is best from above, you're the longest range character, and have first strike usually. Battlefield visibility is tops as a result, and damage while not the best, is decent when you take into account switching targets, and buffs.

It's not as simple as it used to be, but its still my favored class. My warrior is my main - but I've always preferred range (this will sound silly) since days od Diablo II. Freaking stygian doll boss exploding and taking 5k life...

Venganza · Mar 29, 2011, 05:23 PM // 17:23

When you say "no groups want a ranger", what you are really saying is "none of the copy-cat meta-build self-professed experts want a ranger"

Do you wonder it is hard to do "so-called" elite stuff like UW/DOA with a ranger?

All these twits wanting to see stones, (which most n00bs just buy) have some lunatic notion that nothing but the classes/builds they yell for parrot-fashion could possibly work.

Most of them incidentally have scant knowledge of any build at all apart from the stock-standard fare they use.

Simply don't bother with all the elitism and the snobbery, find yourself a better guild if your current one is not helping you along.

Truth be told, almost any class or team composition can handle just about anything in the game. Just because the know-it-all brigade are not clever enough to grasp the potential of classes like a ranger, doesn't mean you need to fuss about their notions does it?

Certainly it is a pain having to put up with them, all I can say is grin and bear it, and hoping hook up with more open-minded players who have a better understanding of skills overall

Nijntjuh · Mar 29, 2011, 06:13 PM // 18:13

rangers are pretty good at UW/FoW in the right teams cause whirling defence is cool

and in some situations / locations better then assassins or elementalists. Think of Tower of Strength or Burning Forest for example.

IronSheik · Mar 29, 2011, 06:17 PM // 18:17

It is hard for a ranger to remain true to its profession, I know.

Even the most promising damage elite, burning arrow, has become crap.

For me nowadays if I want to use my bow on my trusty ole ranger it's easier with heroes.

I run incendiary arrows with EBSoH, and ignite. While bringing 3-5 rangers with the same. EBSoH amps up damage from ignite as well as regular arrows, so it can pump out huge pressure. Combine this with a para+orders+splinter the combined physway can clear as fast as discord

If you're looking just for a general team, anyone who isn't an elitist will take a ranger.
(I just did the vanq on my necro, all I brought was great dwarf weapon and took 5 rangers without checking their builds, GDW+Them made the vanq a cake walk)

Take a look at marksman wager as well, combine that with 8~ expertise and some high energy skills (Sundering/pent/conjure/powershot) and you can output some nice single target spikes, don't underestimate it!

/end sporadic rambling

AndroBubbles · Mar 29, 2011, 06:22 PM // 18:22

Melee rangers are actually quite good at dealing damage. I got Legendary Guardian with a R/A dagger beastmaster. It pumps out more than 100 dps +aoe from deathblossom, and that's without buffs from other skills.

thejerk · Mar 29, 2011, 06:49 PM // 18:49

Ive seen plenty of R/RIT in fowsc runs....some rangers can serve as terras in both uw and fow. I am sure the sos in UWSC can be Ranger primary as well. For doa, any prof can dwg and run thru that place. Finding grps as a ranger may be tougher than the norm but it certainly isnt impossible.

Aeronwen · Mar 29, 2011, 06:53 PM // 18:53

I am not a great player, far from it. But I have achieved everything in pve on my ranger and you can too.

Beomagi and Venganza talk a lot of sense. .

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beomagi

I look at the ranger as being the optimal battlefield commander.

I used to have to h/h everything but you have 7 heroes. (I found I needed at least 2 other players for The Deep and Urgoz) What it comes down to with a non-player team is that you direct the tactics and flow of any battle. You know when to charge and when to retreat and your team obeys so go for it! For occasions when the hero AI is less than optimal I carry rebirth on my ranger , I trust the heroes with a battlefield rez.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Venganza

Truth be told, almost any class or team composition can handle just about anything in the game. Just because the know-it-all brigade are not clever enough to grasp the potential of classes like a ranger, doesn't mean you need to fuss about their notions does it?

I have a great guild and anyone may take any class anywhere in guild groups (we do prefer to have at least one healer) This results in much more fun for all of us than wiki builds and speed. Unless the groups will be tightly packed I don’t take barrage. My build will depend in the situation and the other players. But I don’t pretend to be another profession. Find some good guildies and you will fins that you vcan be a very useful member of the team – its not all about dps.

Khaal · Mar 29, 2011, 06:58 PM // 18:58

My Ranger is my main, and what's worse is that I like to run a beastmaster build, so nobody wants me, even though I rock. Unfortunately, the only solution I have found is to either wait for a very long time for a group to accept me and hope they don't ask me to ping or be the group leader. So, I've started leading a lot. In areas I'm not too familiar with I will try to find a group, but a lot of the time I just have to lead. Kinda sucks, but it's good for me, I guess.

chuckles79 · Mar 29, 2011, 07:33 PM // 19:33

Rangers have gotten a bad rap because quite frankly there are a lot of crappy rangers out there.
Their survivability and broad range of skills make them the perfect default for players with poor gaming skills or poor internet connections.

That being said, a good ranger is worth it's weight in gold. It's exactly that broad range that make a ranger a welcome addition. You have a player that can condition spread AND interrupt; AoE with blocking; More E pips than Ws and Ps, but more armor than assasins.

Ever since the oldest days of prophecies, and continuing today; the last man standing in a group is often a ranger.
I used to play ranger a lot and countless times the party was saved because I brought Rebirth.
In Glaiveway they are better than many; using stances to go deep when others take massive damage. EoE and FS are musts in many elite areas, and Barrage is the most reliable physical damage skill in the game now 6 years old.

The only time a ranger isn't welcome is in UWSC's, and rangers aren't the only profession that isn't welcomed at that party.

My final word on rangers. My father and mother go into GW back in 07. They've been playing rangers the whole time. My dad has MGHSoRM and she has Many Leather Bound Books. They'll both be GWAMM by the end of the year most likely. They've beaten Duncan, they've gotten Armbraces. The list goes on.
There are no excuses for rangers.

If you are looking for practical advice, might I suggest making friends with an imbagon, maybe even on that uses Racway or a variant of. 3 paragons stacking shouts on a ranger, along with some Orders thrown in, can make a ranger a lot more effective.

Leohan · Mar 29, 2011, 09:03 PM // 21:03

In PvE, rangers may be the masters of none but, they stand alone, ready to fill any role needed. My main toon is a ranger for 4 years now and I can't stress enough it's the only character I'll ever need, want is another story. Barrage is not the only elite skill a ranger as, read up on what all the others do. I for one take "Broad Head Arrow" 90% of the time, 20 seconds of daze, you won't be the only one hitting the foe. Add some "Epidemic" condition spread to your or others skill bar and your laughing. "Great Dwarf Weapon" on your pet of fellow physical damage ally helps out everyone.
Never underestimate the role a support class plays. It's not always about how much damage everyone can do. If you wish to hit multiple foes at the same time "Volley" is still there.

A ranger's armor vs. elemental damage makes it a survivor where others would fall in a few hits. Don't forget to add extra armor insignia's depending on your skill bar. Most of the time I have a stance skill, so I have "Sentry's" Armor while in Stance.

Don't forget to put your attribute points into Expertise. Having skills take 1, 2 or 5 energy to cast..thank you sir may I have another. Experiment with skills, try new things out, don't depend on PvX wiki so much it's there to help but, won't help you truly understand the reasoning of why.

With the whole PuG group thing, screw them, find a guild/community of people who are willing to teach, explain and there to have some fun.

Fay Vert · Mar 29, 2011, 09:09 PM // 21:09

Rangers have been bottom of the heap for a few years, Anet preferred to buff assassin, mesmer and dervish first. Probably expect buffs to paragon warrior and monk before they get around to remembering that there once was a popular profession called ranger. Even when they do a comprehensive skill update to all professions rangers get nothing.

Master of nothing they are. Not much good at trades either.

paranon · Mar 29, 2011, 09:17 PM // 21:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Venganza

When you say "no groups want a ranger", what you are really saying is "none of the copy-cat meta-build self-professed experts want a ranger"

Do you wonder it is hard to do "so-called" elite stuff like UW/DOA with a ranger?

All these twits wanting to see stones, (which most n00bs just buy) have some lunatic notion that nothing but the classes/builds they yell for parrot-fashion could possibly work.

Most of them incidentally have scant knowledge of any build at all apart from the stock-standard fare they use.

Simply don't bother with all the elitism and the snobbery, find yourself a better guild if your current one is not helping you along.

Truth be told, almost any class or team composition can handle just about anything in the game. Just because the know-it-all brigade are not clever enough to grasp the potential of classes like a ranger, doesn't mean you need to fuss about their notions does it?

Certainly it is a pain having to put up with them, all I can say is grin and bear it, and hoping hook up with more open-minded players who have a better understanding of skills overall

I find it hard to understand why there are so many people qqing like this on guru, the REASON the "copy-cat meta-build self-professed experts" bars are as they are, is because that is the most effective thing to run for that area, the builds are designed to synergise completely with each other for the fastest completion times, and no matter how skillful you are, if you run a random bar or profession that doesnt work with the others in the team, then it isn't going to work. I would like to remind you that "the know-it-all brigade" can complete areas like UW and DoA in under 35 minutes, whereas "more open-minded players who have a better understanding of skills overall" tend to take multiple hours for those same areas. People don't take random bars in these teams because they would rather spend 40mins speeding through an area with specific roles and a team build that works well together than 2 hours running around bashing random foes. Different people enjoy different things, but you have to realise that people run the builds they do for a reason.
I also find it ironic that you call these people snobs when you go onto a forum and claim that a sizeable proportion of the people in the game are ignorant of how you think it should be played.

Amy Awien · Mar 29, 2011, 10:58 PM // 22:58

I find it hard to understand why people would want to turn a game into a job.

Anyway, go with a group, or guild group who play for fun rather then efficiency. Beyond that, most stuff can be done with heroes - though humans can be a lot more fun to be with.

Kelfer · Mar 30, 2011, 05:14 AM // 05:14

Quote:

Rangers have gotten a bad rap

Not just this, the Ranger is one of only 2 classes that have had no attention recently, as far as updates go.

A Rit on the team w. Splinter Weapon makes the Ranger an awesome damage dealer. Personally I would rather choose a Ranger to be in my team than say an Assassin or Warrior, although these also have thier place (no come back on this pls, discussion is elsewhere). When it gets hard, a Ranger is gonna last longer than most other classes. He has the best kiting mechanisms and can often be objective about picking targets.

It is also one of the few classes that has almost no split between PvE and PvP.
This should a hint about game mechanics, which despite not being perfect, are still pretty good for the much maligned Ranger.

Rites · Mar 30, 2011, 06:37 AM // 06:37

i love my ranger, i love my bow(s), and i love my bear

paragons are meant to be the battlefield commanders, but my ranger was doing that before nightfalls even came out. and now with the command line skills adding that extra oomph on my ranger's attacks as well as all others in my party, my ranger (in my opinion) is better than a single paragon

to all those pvxwiki snobs that dont seem to know otherwise, i just smile when i see them tell a ranger that they cant join their group, cuz i know better.
and because i don't have the time (or desire) to constantly have to prove myself, i came to rely only on heroes and henchies in my travels, and personall i have come to prefer them over the snobs i bump into on the road to enjoying the final days of this wonderful game

Quote:

Originally Posted by paranon

I would like to remind you that "the know-it-all brigade" can complete areas like UW and DoA in under 35 minutes, whereas "more open-minded players who have a better understanding of skills overall" tend to take multiple hours for those same areas. People don't take random bars in these teams because they would rather spend 40mins speeding through an area with specific roles and a team build that works well together than 2 hours running around bashing random foes.

worrying about speed/timing means you are forgetting the most basic aspect of the game.... it is meant to be a fun and enjoyable experience

yum · Mar 30, 2011, 06:38 AM // 06:38

Ye, good rangers are gold. The problem is: they extincted!

So whenever I see a ranger, I assume he/she is bad. Who's gonna take a baddie? Well, most players are bad but there are still hopes. Rangers? I wouldn't take my chance.

Until they break the ranger in pve, you will just have to face this harsh reality.

paranon · Mar 30, 2011, 06:59 AM // 06:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rites

worrying about speed/timing means you are forgetting the most basic aspect of the game.... it is meant to be a fun and enjoyable experience

If people didnt enjoy doing it then they wouldnt do it, personally i find doing things as fast as possible to be the most fun way of playing and also a nice challenge.

Amy Awien · Mar 30, 2011, 07:34 AM // 07:34

From what I've seen ingame, fun didn't 'radiate' from those who sought to be efficient and fast.

squiros · Mar 30, 2011, 08:25 AM // 08:25

a ranger with pre-nerf shadowform was the highest armor ignoring damage i've ever seen. with a zealous bow, they could do 800..900 damage a shot every shot, and have a net energy gain without scatter. this was with splinter barrage + IATS!. these were the yellow numbers we could correctly identify. many times, there would be so many damage packets that the far left and far right numbers would overlap so much we couldn't read them.

bring back SF for the sake of the rangers! and every other profession that has a skill that 'affects adjacent foes'.

my ranger guild member made a ranger exclusively for the above purpose. since the nerf, we've failed to find a place where the ranger is dominant. it IS true that rangers can do anything - but that's a testament to the heroes, not the ranger. ranger interrupt is inferior to mesmers. since it's very difficult to ball up enemies with any real speed, they're not damage kings anymore. rangers survive better because they're more aware of the battlefield because they're not doing anything critical for the party. the fact remains that there are no builds that can be seriously considered to replace a standard bar of any other profession. not being able to do anything better than anyone else makes the game not fun, since that was the entire point of guild wars - filling specific needs. this was why the dervish got a remake: both the W and A were able to overshadow them in every way that mattered.